Forum:So, the Epilogues.

Oh boy. I don't even know where to start. Here we are with two divergent timelines with vastly different outcomes that might not even be canon. Spoilers ahead for the epilogues.

So, the main thing that will probably get us in a lot of trouble regardless of how we address it: Calliope and Roxy. In the meat timeline Calliope and Roxy both transition, with them both using they/them pronouns and Roxy later transitioning to he/him pronouns. In the Candy timeline, they both stick with using their original she/her pronouns.

And, of course, in the Candy timeline, gadzooks! Relationships and babies abound. Like five new characters? Eek. Also other things in there I don't want to think about a lot. Same with the Meat timeline actually. Both have pretty fucky things going on in them.

Of course, all of these are of "dubious authenticity" which of course means should we even be treating any of this as canon? And if so, how do we split up the pages and how on earth are we gonna deal with the new characters and new character relationship changes? Everything is happening so much. I didn't do my laundry today because all I did was read the epilogues. Homestuck keeps ruining my life. I don't have anything else to say on the manner but thought we should get this discussion started before edit wars get out of control and everything goes crazy. But that might be too late... – <span style="text-shadow:-1px -1px 1px &amp; #35;ffde55, -1px 1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55, 1px 1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55, 1px -1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55; color:&amp;#35;fdfdfd;"&gt;Hero of Hope – 03:28, April 21, 2019 (UTC)​

As a mere, unworthy, irrelevant anon, I suggest that You wait for a week, just in case the Unholy Trinity decides to give out more material that either establishes a new timeline (Vegetables/Fruit/Whatever You wish) or confirms one of the two as canon.

If nothing is released, then a good course of action would be to either add a new Non-canon header on each appearing character's profile, and write in the information about them, or create entirely new pages for their Epiloggue incarnations. You can even go as far as to make two of those, one for Meat, and one for Candy. The characters sure feel different enough to deserve not having any of this written on their main self pages.

2A02:810B:B3F:C733:55C3:223B:C284:8FF0 20:55, April 21, 2019 (UTC)

I think it's probably fine to make new character pages for those introduced, put them into categories denoting their reality (Candy/Meat). The old characters with new information probably need their own dedicated Candy & Meat pages. I do, however, think it's OK to add info about them to their main pages that is moreso just elaborative & not transformative. For instance, "Karkat gets into a relationship with Jade" is for the individual page, but info like "Karkat is revealed to have photosensitivity" seems fine to place on the main Karkat Vantas page. Or the Candy & Meat realities themselves might even need individual pages but that's above my paygrade. This quite obviously is at least as "canon" as Hiveswap to the overall Homestuck picture, the very nature of the Epilogue just sort of fucks with the definitions that we use for places like this. It was written by Hussie, so the info belongs here as much as anything else, but notably separating it from the /main/ stuff isn't too bad an idea. Rabbeseking (talk) 00:20, April 22, 2019 (UTC)

Oh man, I forgot about the characters that appear to be the same in both timelines, AKA the ones that go from fighting LE in Meat to falling from the sky in Candy. Oh god. This is just the worst. Hussie I hate you. – <span style="text-shadow:-1px -1px 1px &amp; #35;ffde55, -1px 1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55, 1px 1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55, 1px -1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55; color:&amp;#35;fdfdfd;"&gt;Hero of Hope – 00:35, April 22, 2019 (UTC)​

The idea that the two occur on opposite sides of the black hole do help. "Everything in the Candy Timeline takes place below the horizon the Reality Consuming Singularity Calliope created to consume the Green Sun! Everything in Meat takes place above the Horizon. This is the reason Candy doesn't matter - except for the special exclusion of Calliope's Wormhole, nothing inside this Singularity can leave. Nothing in the Candy Timeline can ever effect anything in the Meat Timeline again." It appears like a one-way street. If you end up in Candy, you are a Candy character. Rabbeseking (talk) 00:42, April 22, 2019 (UTC)

Oh yeah and then there was also that bit with Obama which touched on some of those controversial things mentioned in Skaianet, so that's... oof. At this point I'm more laying cards on the table than trying to figure out solutions because.... I don't know. I suppose our best course at the option is to create separate (sub?)pages for the different timelines. Perhaps for characters like (Vriska) in both epilogues are just given the note of "epilogues" rather than splitting up into meat & candy. Still not sure what to do with the babies and Swifer. – <span style="text-shadow:-1px -1px 1px &amp; #35;ffde55, -1px 1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55, 1px 1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55, 1px -1px 1px &amp;#35;ffde55; color:&amp;#35;fdfdfd;"&gt;Hero of Hope – 03:28, April 22, 2019 (UTC)​


 * I feel it should be noted there are kinda of 3 classes of character; characters who were split across the timeline due to John's decision and have different versions of themselves in each timeline, characters who were born after the timeline split and only exist in a single version of reality, characters who existed before the split but were not effected by it and may have had their single self travel between the two timelines.
 * The second and three categories are easy to deal with, since the character's timeline is singular. The real problem is the first type.
 * Also when it comes to documenting the actual epilogue, you know like Act pages, I posted my thoughts over on the Epilogues' talk page. - The Light6 (talk) 04:05, April 22, 2019 (UTC)

There is no reason not to use They/Them on the pages regarding Calliope and Roxy, thats how they are in that timeline and respecting it is paramount for the community, using they/them pronouns in regards to both of them is how its supposed to represented in homestuck from now on, Roxy using he/they pronouns means we are to regard them as that. And the same goes for Calliope. Undoing correct information is not what a wiki is for, and everyone has agreed to call them as such as I mentioned before. Nobody wants Roxy and Calliope's pronouns as she/her, as in the candy timeline we clearly see Roxy struggling with their gender and Calliope was gone for the majority of it, so we wouldn't know if they ever decided they were non-binary or not, which they likely did. Using correct pronouns is what the majority of the community would prefer. Misgendering them like that isn't cool. As I mentioned earlier there is 0 purpose to not use they/them for both of them since that isnt particularily implying much of Roxy's development through their gender therefore not spoiling it. SparkClouds (talk

Gentlemen, may I offer a comproomise?

Treat characters across the Wiki as if they have not been affected by the Epilogue. Whenever it's necessary to refer to the Epilogue, create an entirely separate section within a given page related to Epilogue information.

Why is this necessary?

In the Meat timeline, Roxy chooses to be a boy. In the Candy timeline, Roxy chooses to be a girl. If both timelines are canon, then Roxy is a boy and girl. If meat timeline is canon but candy isn't, Roxy is a boy. If candy timeline is canon but meat isn't, Roxy is a girl. If neither are canon, Roxy is a girl.

Since the fandom clearly is debating on the canonicity of these things as well as of the Epilogue as a whole, seeing as motherfucking Obama appeared and Hussie presented this like a fan-fiction, I recommend we engage in this compromise.

In this case, that would mean Roxy is treated across the wiki as a girl, but whenever there's a section added to a page specifically focusing on Epilogue information, we would in those contexts refer to Roxy as they/them since she was both a boy and girl in both timelines simultaneously.

I recommend this solution, as I believe it is likely other users may try to pull shit like this too if this is not quickly clarified, and likely cannot be clarified any other way without sparking debate and anger over confusion regarding what is and is not canon. Epyc Wynn(talk

Maybe an 'Epilogue' section at the end of each character's biography could be split into two sections using tabber tags, with one Meat tab and one Candy tab? And in the case of characters who fall from one timeline to the other, a simple 'From this point on, [x character]'s story continues in the Candy continuity' at the end of their Meat biography could suffice. JakeMorph (talk) 23:59, April 23, 2019 (UTC)

'''I believe that elaborated method would make sense, JakeMorph. Something like that would be useful to maintaining clarity in how character information is documented.''' Epyc Wynn(talk