Talk:Caliborn/Archive 1

Who's this douchbag?
Well, I'll be the first to ask the question.

Who's this douchebag?

50.37.154.156 07:39, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * SUFFERER. GOTTA BE HIM. TRUST ME. - 99.138.44.42
 * Personally, I don't think it's the Sufferer; the fact that he has a different sign and he's only part of a two player session make this seem unlikely; I'll leave it to someone else to make the call for the actual wiki page, however. 206.196.184.190 15:22, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Dissociative Personality Disorder
"split personality people are not aware of their other half. uu is aware of UU and has talked of their interactions."

Umm, that's not actually true, while a person with multiple personalities can be unaware that they do or even that their alternate personalities exist it, it is quite possible for a person to be aware more then one personality exists and it is quite possible for the multiple personalities to converse with each other.

Also their might be some evidence to support it as UU and uu being the same person would follow patterns already established, for example: All that stuff about UU's sex/gender despite the fact everything points to UU being a girl. If uu, a male, is just an alternate personality and troll sexes are ambiguous at best, having two personalities with different genders would explain that.

Also out of the 2 dead trolls they seemed to be a combination of two other trolls. You even put your own theory on the forum as "Gemini+Cancer+Leo": We already have an obvious Karkat link (Cancer), multiple personalities would link Sollux (Gemini) and we know UU wears a jacket that seems to resemble Nepeta's (Leo). The Light6 13:59, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

OK just remembered that UU said her brother had a different blood colour and uu has already been established as UU's brother. So I donno, I previously thought the trolls were triplets but that still is unconfirmed, so maybe we are being mislead to assume uu is the same "sibling" that UU was referring to previously. I donno, I guess we'll find out. The Light6 16:25, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Okay I guess what I said wasn't particularly precise because I tried to make it short. Dissociative identity disorder results in memory loss as soon as the other personality "takes over", as such patients are not aware of being another person. Unless (that's just my guess though) they are made aware of it by someone else. In that case the condition should theoretically fall appart though (another guess, not a real expert or anything). It is possible that UU leaves chat messages for uu, and vice versa, without the other realising they are writing to themselves. But that begs the question how conntact between them was first established. Also, just to clarify things, Sollux does not have Dissociative identity disorder, but rather bipolar disorder (or perhaps bipolar II disorder, but the difference isn't really relevant atm). I'm not sure if you were even trying to say that, or if you just meant that Dissociative identity disorder would "suit" the gemini sign.bitterLime 17:06, March 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah I know he is bipolar (though I am not familiar with the different types of it) and was saying it would fit his duality theme. The Light6 21:17, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

two player session
So this:

"If uu and UU really start a two player session, then it is likely that uu is a Hero of Time, because the time aspect seems to be one of two essential aspects to a session. Doc Scratch said each session will have a Beat Mesa equivalent and that it will be in the Hero of Time's land. This would also suit the speculation about UU being a Hero of Space, the other seemingly essential aspect of a session. Furthermore all Heros of Time we have seen so far have been Derse Dreamers, just like uu."

was removed from the page with the comment "we don't know that". I'm not sure what part of this we don't know about, because as far as I am aware that was all established at some point. It was filed under speculation anyway. bitterLime 21:41, March 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * If the Heroes of Time and Space are such essential aspects of a session, what does it mean that the post-scratch kids have neither? UU seems to think that the post-scratch kids will be successful, if she's correct then perhaps UU & uu are destined to somehow join the kids' session (GCAT hax?). I don't think this is a strong theory, but I want to get it out there nonetheless >_>. CyanideCatgirl 07:06, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Post-Scratch doesn't have those two because the Pre-Scratch kids, who DO have them, are arriving. experimentalDeity 07:10, March 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * More likely is that the pre-scratch kids will join the post-scratch kid's universe. Looking at the ancient ruins on Jake's ISLAND, Jade's ISLAND (yeah, pre-impact, wanted to get an undamaged image) and the TWO. RUINS. in the Troll's universe. One can conclude that the pillars with spheres at the heads symbolize the plants that orbit the frog that will live in the middle of skaia. (hrm, skaia, gaia) If that is the case then perhaps THIS is not a coincedence. Or you could look at it like this, what other purpose could jade's shruken planets be for?
 * As for UU and uu, maybe they are in the future troll colonized earth? They could be interacting with the kids via a exile's terminal and could be finding the histories very directly.
 * Merreton 07:40, March 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * Umm, are you directing that at Per Ankh because they already said what you just said. Also how do people miss dialogue where the characters talk about how they are going to a new session? That has been the plan for ages now. Also Hussie confirmed that Skaia is portmanteau of "Sky" and "Gaia" ages ago, it is on the Skaia page. The Light6 08:40, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Wait, if it's a two player session THEN WHO ARE THE DEAD TROLLS? Boot to da head yo 21:45, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

I guess they might simple be the pre-scratch ancestors after all, after all that would be the easiest sollution? I still think it's possible for uu and UU to be "second generation" trolls, from a culture eventually created by kanaya, after all it was implied there was still a chance, despite the destroyed matriorb. I have no real good answer, but uu and UU clearly plan to have a two player session, unless there is some sort of mobius cluster fuck where 6 teams of two players each join to create 12 again. Also a possibility I guess.bitterLime 21:56, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

I personally believe that the new trolls are all the result mixing ghost slime using Ectobiology as they all seem to be fusions of other trolls. If each of the post scratch kids get to meet one new troll each plus UU and uu there will be 6 new trolls with the DNA of two trolls each.CrystalGriffin 00:09, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

That still doesn't explain how they plan to do a 2 player session when theres likely, 12 other trolls (probably dead) Boot to da head yo 01:25, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

In any case uu and UU are currently the only living new trolls therefore irregardless of whether uu and UU are connected to the dead trolls they can only form a 2 person session. The dead trolls aren't like Aradia they can't play the game as ghosts.GemstoneChimera


 * Just pointing out that both UU and uu are awake on Prospit and Derse, if there was going to be more players in their session surely they would've noticed their dream towers? Also a little note on troll ectobiology, not going to point out the evidence but the evidence that does exist suggest that troll ectobiology doesn't use 2 trolls to create a new one but rather 3 trolls in order to simulate their complex reproductive method (of course ectobiology isn't regular reproduction so using 2 trolls would probably work anyhow but just saying). The Light6 06:12, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

So are we going to put that back? Because if they have a working two player session then they have to be players of time and space. Assuming that what doc scratch said is true, and that the frogs are always bred by the space player.bitterLime 08:39, March 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well external players could always come into their session, like the alpha session. Also on Space players breeding duties there is also the speculation about Knights being their assistants which may or may not also make them session constants meaning if UU is a Space player that uu could be a Knight. The Light6 08:50, March 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * But then uu would be the Knight of Time, which Dave already is. I'm pretty sure that Hussie isn't that uncreative. Boot to da head yo 13:44, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, guys... Forum for speculation? I know I've been kind of inactive lately, but I'm still keeping an eye on things here and there. I'll try to be more active again reasonably soon. ...also, I guess this kind of makes me seem like a bit of a douchebag, if all I do is drop in to tell you off >_>

This is here rather than on the forum because I originally just wanted to know if we should add that line back onto the page. But then it turned into a speculation discussion.OopsbitterLime 16:36, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Title Speculation
Is it not possible that uu is the Thief of Time? Based on the hintings for Dirk and Roxy's titles, this might be true as Dirk states that uu has 'stolen enough of [his] time.' It might also mean that, as UU is a Space player, that since he is a Time player, their session merges in a way with the Alpha kids, providing Space and Time players which, as far as I know, are requisite for a successful session.68.46.235.187 22:34, March 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * As I mentioned in the section above it's imo a given that uu is a time player if uu and UU really play a 2 player session that is not linked to anyone else's session (and also assuming UU is the space player). Thief might be possible, because of what you said, but the space and time players of the new kid's session will be Jade and Dave. We know for certain the old kids will join the new kids (and jade is bringing their planets), and the frog temple on Jake's island has 8 pillars, not 6. Also speculation should go into the forum section, specifically the subforum "Forum:Frog Temple". Talk pages should be more focused on discussing the actual article. Or were you advocating that the page should mention this in some way, in that case join the discussion in the section above this onebitterLime 22:46, March 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * Both thief and rogue classes are exclusively female, also. 50.37.159.180 06:55, March 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's not true, both thief and rogue have been said to have a tendency towards bein female, but not exclusively so.bitterLime 08:30, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

Alot are saying that pre-scratch sufferer may be undyingumbrage, am i right? remember, THERE WAS NO TROLL WITH THE OPHICIUS SIGN IN THE HIVEBENT. therefore, speculating that the pre-scratch Sufferer had the Ophicius. OPHICIUS = uu = Signless/Sufferer. Although I may be wrong in some way, because karkat and the sufferer had the same mutant red blood. AND uu only appeared during the post-scratch session. This is my theory over this. Please correct if im wrong :> :P Paradoxios 12:21, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

If UU and uu are the same person then it is possible they share a title. if they share a title then the combo of space and time can not exist. Also there is only one aspect that currently does not have a living member(Doom). As such I believe they have the aspect of doom. CrystalGriffin 02:18, May 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt they share a title. UU states her class is female-only, and uu identifies as male, which doesn't really jive. 02:27, May 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * This should really go here: Forum:UU but I will just go ahead and mention that as I wrote on the forum, if UU and uu share a body then effects their routes to god tier, if they have a single quest bed then either we assume only one of them can go god tier or they both share their aspect or alternatively their quest bed design incorporates both their aspects. The Light6 07:16, May 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Either way I'm sure Doom is in there somewhere. Excluding Kanaya Hussie has been strategicaly killing off characters so only one of each aspect exists.Doom is currently the only aspect without a living hero so (he/she/they) must be (one of/the one) to fill it as the only known living (player/players) without a known aspect.GemstoneChimera


 * You forgot Aradia she is also still alive. However given the special compulsory nature of heroes of Time and Space maybe that there is still currently two of them is symbolic? Also while Doom is the only one not expressed by any character that is alive Sollux isn't dead either, he is a half ghost, so... I donno. Also if uu is Doom and fills all aspects with living characters that still leaves UU with a duplicate aspect. The Light6 01:16, May 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm currnelty counting anyone who stayed behind at the green sun Dead as they will not be able to join future sessions. Also a new theory I have devoloped, the quest beds only show aspects without any indication of class so if uu and UU are the same person it is possible they will share a one aspect(Doom), since sharing a body would mean only one quest bed, but have different classes. That could explain how UU has a female specific class even though uu is assumed to be male.CrystalGriffin 20:00, May 8, 2012 (UTC)

As has been speculated many times elsewhere, Time and Space seem to make up the two most necessary aspects (actually, wasn't that confirmed in a Q&A somewhere?). That said it seems likely uu and UU share these aspects respectively (Heroes of Space seem to be predisposed to Prospit Dreamers, and all current Heroes of Time are likewise Derse Dreamers). UU has mentioned that her class is female only. Both Sylph of Space and Witch of Space (two plausibly female-only sounding classes) are taken, leaving UU as a possible Maid of Space. On uu's side meanwhile, UU tells Dirk that the Alpha kids don't have a Bard on their team, because of their destructive influence. Now, I'm going to stretch this off-handed comment pretty far, starting with what a destructive, unpredictable influence uu is on their session, I speculate that uu is a Bard of Time. Add this to uu/UU's dualistic relationship, this makes uu the passive class of the two male-only destroyer classes. Now going from what little we know about the Maid, I speculate that it is the passive companion (Aradia certainly did a lot of saving her party members behind the scenes by maintaining the timeline) of the Sylph class, which is seen at least in one combination, Aranea's Sylph of Light, to be a 'healer' class, which would in turn make UU a passive of two female-only healer classes. Just my two cents that seems like a particularly fitting combination.68.146.178.182 06:03, May 27, 2012 (UTC) (Edit, I'm having difficulties making this properly fit at the bottom. Someone show me the error of my ways)


 * Looking at the grey clouds of skaia and how the carapacians attire consisting or rags not to mention uu's murder of UU's dreamself, it seems their session is a null session "doomed" to failure. would it not make sense for a session that is so dark and hopeless to be inhabited by (a hero)/heroes of doom.AmberCyanide 21:30, May 27, 2012
 * Interesting theory, I like it. Aepokk Venset 02:32, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * If we believe his name is Masistes, as speculated below for his name, Masistes was one of six chiefs. Chief is one syllable, so could this be his class, a master class to go with Muse? 69.14.156.208 23:14, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Name
So, if UU's name is Calliope, uu must be Masistes? Some nice parallels can be drawn (e.g. regarding possible relation to Lord English - "second after the king").
 * Yes, that could work. Though we don't know for sure his name will start with Masis, it could end with it instead
 * Pretty sure it's going to be an 8 letter name including "masis", so this is a very likely possibility...because I don't think there are many names fitting those criteria?bitterLime 12:41, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Cal"masis". nuff said. --Astroninja1 12:46, June 20, 2012 (UTC)

uu's title
OK I am putting this here so that if anyone else tries to add "Hero of Time" to uu's infobox or on the character navbox they can be linked here.

When Calliope HS 7009 (referred to uu as a Hero of Time), she DID NOT reveal his class. It has been shown, time and time again for ages that Hero is a generic term used like this: Hero of. eg. John is a Hero of Breath, Rose is a Hero of Light, Dave is a Hero of Time, Jade is a Hero of Space, and so on for any other character who has a mythological title (with the exception of the B2 kids who are referred to as Nobles of ).

One point of note is the grammar difference between the generic term and the actual title, eg. Calliope is a Hero of Space, but she is the Muse of Space. Calliope's reference to uu's role is in the "a Hero" form.

Now some are going to ask: "If Hero is a generic term why aren't we using that as a place holder instead?". And the answer is simple: If people mistook Calliope's reference as a revelation of uu's class, how many people will be mislead if we start putting up "Hero of Time" for uu?

Now there is a message on the infobox and the character navbox telling people to not add Hero of Time, before those messages were there it was excusable to mistakenly add Hero in, now it is not, so doing so now requires you actually ignore the message that is there, doing so will now result in a level 1 warning. The Light6 01:56, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Music copyright claim
The current video linked for The Thirteenth Hour "is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated" thanks to Sony Music Japan.

Please don't tell me Sony (copyright bots) thinks they own Homestuck music?

222.154.234.207 09:21, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well, you did say "bots" :/ the17 Master  09:32, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well the whole account has been terminated not just the video, the person could have easily uploaded other non-Homestuck stuff which was Sony's. The Light6 10:18, June 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * this has actually been happening more and more frequently in cases like this when nothing on the channels actuly belonged to sony. its notoriusly common against vocaloid song uploaders for example Astroninja1 13:44, June 21, 2012 (UTC)

Where to add this
So now besides the similarities to Karkat and L. English, we now have uu laughing like Lil Cal/Doc Scratch. Aside from this getting way out of hand, where does this go on the page? --Neumannz (talk)


 * I would think trivia would be a good place for it. Chezrush 11:40, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

I'm just gonna leave this here... Isshiki Kotonashi 16:57, June 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * "TT: You must have some wires crossed between your left brain and right brain. Like a weird perceptual disorder. Or something like that. "

Lateralization nonsense
Neuroscientist slacking off at work here. I would like to point out that hemispherical dominance in the brain has jack-diddly to do with "opinions on literature and personal relationships, and general likeability." I took that part out.

Prince of Time
Pretty sure they said he's the Prince of Time. -


 * But Prince isn't a Master Class. Aepokk Venset 13:55, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * What Aepokk said, Prince is an old regular class, and we know Caliborn's class is a new unrevealed master class meaning that it isn't Prince. The Light6 (talk) 13:59, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Merge with LE page?
Should we merge this page with Lord English page? Since it's pretty much confirmed that Caliborn and LE are one in the same? (Or at least this seems to be what Hussie is trying to point out to us).


 * I don't think so. I think they should be kept seperate, for the same reasons we have different pages for Spades Slick and Jack Noir. Aepokk Venset 14:31, July 28, 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if they do turn out to be exactly the same being, they will still warrant separate pages, I would say. It's something we will have to keep an eye on, and will depend heavily on how much more we get of Caliborn being Caliborn before he turns into LE "properly"

Seems like a Betty Crocker/Condesce case to me. We could do the same thing and just put "For the adult/younger version of this character see", but yeah, technically it's still not outright confirmed, just extremely strongly hinted at.bitterLime 20:44, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree fully with BitterLime. If (when, really) it does end up being outright confirmed, I think it should be handled in the manner he suggested. And I just want to say, the only thing making me doubt that Caliborn = Lord English is the eyes. Aepokk Venset 20:52, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I was meaning to give my opinion on this last night but yeah I say that they remain having separate pages. The Light6 (talk) 00:01, July 29, 2012 (UTC)

Why's he called that?
Well... kind of reminds me of Caliburnus, the Latinized version of Caledfwlch (you know, that legendary piece of shit that King Arthur pulled out of that rock that time). And by "reminds" I mean "this is such an obvious connection". 109.154.106.212 18:21, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Good point. Per Ankh ED 19:26, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Also, Caliborn -> Calibur -> Excalibur 19:33, July 28, 2012 (UTC)86.172.5.203

I thought there might be a connection to Caliban. 184.20.34.189 20:29, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

Red Sun Sprite?
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the red sun has just become caliborn's sprite. If that is the case, do you think this is meant to imply something towards the nature of the green sun? It seems unlikely given the nature of its origin, but in calliope's artwork of the sprite the sun itself was left uncolored, and the green and red occupy essentially equal parts of the picture. Maybe that's meant to imply something?

Also, notice that the sprite resembles one half of a cherubs face. Assuming the green sun is nearby, they would form a full cherub face, one side green and one side red.

That said, if you do think the green sun is a sprite, do you have any thoughts on how that might come about?

Beetle The Bemused (talk) 19:34, July 28, 2012 (UTC)

If you are talking about the picture in the end of the flash, it's not the sprite, but the Red Sun being slowly sucked into the black hole. As far as I understand (though it's not definite), Calliope and Caliburn's sprites were released simultaneously, and prototyped themselves with each other, causing a "divide by zero" situation (insert an "OH SHI-" joke here). Time will show though. OneMore (talk) 20:50, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Makes sense, I suppose. The question that remains, however, is what is so significant about it if that's the case. ...I'm probably overlooking something obvious again here. Anyhow, thanks for your input. Beetle The Bemused (talk) 21:33, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, the sprite would be of the object prototyped. If it really was Calliope's kernelsprite that was prototyped, then the sprite wouldn't be the sun, it would be... a kernelsprite??? But that doesn't quite add up, so it becomes a black hole. It just looks like a sprite tail (and even then, not really) because the black hole is slowly sucking the sun in. Aepokk Venset 23:03, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * I understand that at this point, now I'm just wondering what makes it worthy of the ending frame of an AOE flash and that little piece of ominous foreshadowing. In fact, I think the red/green thing from the picture; as well as the half of a cherub's face thing might still be relevant. but otherwise, I don't get what effect this is supposed to have on the rest of the homestuck universe that makes it so noteworthy. Beetle The Bemused (talk) 23:25, July 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * If the sprites did become a black hole I would say as a guess that means the sprites were technically destroyed in its creation making discussion's about its form pointless. The Light6 (talk) 00:01, July 29, 2012 (UTC)