Featured Spirograph.png

Some of the ancestors as depicted by Vivus.

Ancestors are a concept in troll society. They are said toHS.svg be responsible for contributing a greater proportion of their descendant's genes than the slurry from which troll eggs are produced. As such, ancestors typically serve as role modelsHS.svg for adolescent trolls; each ancestor/descendant pairing sharing their blood color, signHS.svg, horns, and other traits. Due to the nature of troll reproduction, the ancestors have usually been dead for centuries by the time a troll is born. However, this is not always the case, especially for particularly long-lived castes. Highbloods tend to look up to them as rolemodels and believe that they are supposed to find clues about their ancestors, but lowbloods are less inclined to give a shit about that kind of stuffHS.svg, often dismissing the idea as superstition.HS.svg

In Homestuck, the post-scratch trolls are shown to frequently mirror the lives and relationships of their ancestors, most of whom were major figures in Alternia's history.

After the Condesce took over Earth, she enforced a system of culture and reproduction onto the humans that was similar to that of the trolls. Consequently, Roxy Lalonde's Mom and Dirk Strider's Bro can be seen as ancestors to Roxy and Dirk, respectively.


Twenty-four trolls (two generations of twelve) were ectobiologically created by Karkat. Hardly any details of the ectobiology are known, including whose paradox ghost imprints were collected and what recombination, if any, was done to them. As such it is unknown which trolls are related beyond the ancestor/descendant pairs. However, it is impliedHS.svg that the ancestors are genetically descended from the Hivebent trolls, given the description of how Karkat created those twenty-four wigglers.

Although separate individuals with different personalities, several physical similarities between the two generations, namely post-scratch Damara looking practically identicalHS.svg to Aradia, seem to indicate that dancestor pairs contribute the majority of the genetic material, if not all of it, just like with normal troll reproduction.

After being created, the wigglers were teleported to meteors in the Veil and sent to Alternia via the Reckoning, with one generation becoming the "ancestors" and the other becoming the Hivebent trolls.

However, as the meteors went through Skaia's defense portals, they were duplicated backwards across the scratch where they arrived on Alternia's pre-scratch iteration, Beforus, and arrived in a different order. As a result, the generations (ancestors and descendants) were swapped. The Beforan trolls would, like their Alternian counterparts, go on to play Sgrub. However, their session would eventually fail, resulting in them deciding to scratch their session, thus create the session in which they would all be created.

Naming conventions

The Dolorosa, Disciple, Signless, and Ψiioniic.

The ancestors, like the trolls and kids, follow a naming scheme. All except for the Grand Highblood have an eight-letter title. Some of them have their titles changed at some point in their lives, usually to another eight-letter word.

Some of them have had their names revealed in addition to their titles. The narration onceHS.svg referred to The Handmaid's room as Damara's room, and a conversationHS.svg between Tavros and Vriska implies that The Summoner's name was Rufioh. This evidence would suggest that all of the ancestors shared the names of their pre-scratch counterparts, the same way the pre-scratch guardians are shown to in Hiveswap. Whether this holds true for the pre-scratch ancestors, or the post-scratch kids' guardians, remains unclear.

There are a few exceptions to the eight-letter pattern, but most are handled by using typing quirks to their advantage. The Ψiioniic's title is spelled with a Ψ (the Greek letter psi) and Sollux's typing quirk to fit the pattern, as psionic is seven letters. E%ecutor Darkleer's title changes to, in Mindfang's words, the Expatri8, even though expatriate would be ten letters. Her Imperious Condescension is referred to as the Condesce for short.

Since the primary source for the ancestors' titles is Mindfang's journals, it is possible that she invented nicknames for some of them to force them into this eight-letter schema as part of her quirk; but some of them (such as the Condesce) have been confirmed by external sources.

Terezi, Vriska and Eridan all named their Flarp characters after their ancestors.

Post-scratch ancestors

The Handmaid

Pre-scratch self is the Witch of Time

The "ancestor" of Aradia Megido, albeit not chronologically so, and the post-scratch incarnation of Damara Megido. It was revealed later in the story that she shares the name of her pre-scratch counterpartHS.svg. The meteor she was on appeared a little less thanHS.svg 612 sweeps after the Vast GlubHS.svg, so her life actually started after Aradia herself was dead, a roundabout paradox that complements Aradia's status as the Maid of Time. Her interference with several events in troll history gave her a reputation as a demoness amongst the trolls (as explainedHS.svg by Doc Scratch), even the helper of Death himself.

The young Handmaid.

Doc Scratch intercepted her meteor and began raising her so that she could be one of Lord English's servants. Under Doc Scratch's tutoring, she became the Handmaid and was released to English. He then gave her a very long lifespan via a curse and sent her back through various points in Alternia's history to serve as a player in major turmoil, such as class warfare and rebellions, in order to prepare the trolls for their Sgrub session.

This all caused her to be feared more than English himself, who rarely interfered directly. She had one last assignment to complete after the destruction of Alternia and the death of the rest of the trolls: recruiting Her Imperious Condescension to serve as her replacement in English's service. Once completed, she will finally be allowed to die.

The Handmaid attempted to escape from this fate while Andrew Hussie distracted Doc Scratch by aggrieving him, but she ended up running right into the waiting gaze of English, who mocks her for trying to flee from a master who is already here.

The Handmaid also has many similarities with the Aradia figure from Charles Leland's 1899 work, Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches. Aradia is the daughter of Diana, the Roman moon goddess, and Lucifer. She is a messianic figure sent down to earth to teach peasants about witchcraft to use against upper classes and against the Roman Catholic Church.

The Handmaid also knows how to use clockwork majykks (appropriate for a Time player), and stirs up class warfare amongst the trolls. Her name may also tie with the Virgin Mary's title as the "handmaid of the Lord".

The black and white buttons on her dress, in tandem with the overall Asian theme surrounding her, may be an intentional reference to the concept of yin and yang. This is fitting, as her master is an evil cherub who, in childhood, reflected this theme heavily with his "sister".

The Summoner

The Summoner flies with Pyralspite.

Pre-scratch self is the Rogue of Breath

The ancestor of Tavros Nitram and the post-scratch incarnation of Rufioh Nitram. According to Mindfang's journal, he was a commander of an army of beasts and a member of the Cavalreapers. By skill and bravery, he became their leader, then won their undying loyalty by growing or revealing wings much like the god tier trolls have.

His evolution would inspire his troops to follow him in a revolution against the Highbloods. The revolution was eventually crushed, and resulted in the Condesce banishing all adult trolls to space, leaving the planet only inhabited by the young. Given the ongoing gag about Pupa Pan, this is possibly a reference to the fact that Neverland is only inhabited by kids who stay young forever.

According to the magic cue ball, the Summoner was fated to become Mindfang's matesprit, but was also destined to be the one to kill her. Mindfang assumes that due to his lowblooded status he would not be born for some timeHS.svg after the last entry in her journal was made. However, given that the ancestors arrived via meteors, her speculation may not be indicative at all. He is somewhat similar to Rufio, and much like how the Signless became a myth over the years, his own actions may have inspired the Pupa Pan stories. The Summoner was the only ancestor that had wings, due to his mutation.

The Ψiioniic / The Helmsman

The Ψiioniic, serving as the Helmsman.

Pre-scratch self is the Heir of Doom

The ancestor of Sollux Captor, a follower of the Sufferer, and the post-scratch incarnation of Mituna Captor. He was a psionic of unequaled telekinetic ability, who was inspired by the Sufferer to defy his masters and break out of the slavery typically assigned to those with psychic powers.

After the Disciple was spared by E%ecutor Darkleer, and the Dolorosa sold into slavery, the Ψiioniic was enlisted in a far worse, if more prestigious, service: being grafted to the flagship of the Condesce. He was forced to serve as its Helmsman, directing and powering the engine with his psychic abilities as a living battery.

It was during his tenure here that the Condesce apparently grew fond of him, increasing his lifespan with her 'touch' until he finally died as a result of the Vast Glub while traveling back to the troll home planet.

Ψ, "psi", is the 23rd letter of the Greek alphabet, thus making the original pronunciation of his name "the Psionic". A psionic is defined as one possessing psychic powers. Another interpretation is that the Ψ symbol in this ancestor's name has something to do with the Condesce, considering the letter resembles a trident, and the same letter is used in the name of Feferi's 2x3dent, Ψdon's Entente. The Ψ symbol also refers to the Condesce's sign, as well as the logo for Betty Crocker after the rebranding, which Jane Crocker is the heiress to.

The Helmsman, as well as his pre-scratch self, could allude to Geordi La Forge from Star Trek: The Next Generation, who wears a visor, has a yellow and black outfit, and has served in the position of helmsman on the Starship Enterprise. Also possibly related is the fact that his descendant, Sollux, went blind, and Geordi is blind.

The Signless / The Sufferer

The Sufferer.gif
Pre-scratch self is the Seer of Blood

The ancestor of Karkat Vantas, and the post-scratch incarnation of Kankri Vantas. Like the other ancestors, he was one of the twelve unsuccessful heroes from the original, pre-scratch session. However, unlike the others, he gradually began to remember his previous existence on Beforus, to which Doc Scratch speculates is a side effect of his mutant, candy red blood. The blood aspect symbol is shown distinctly on his lower left side.

Due to his mutation, the Sufferer was not adopted by a Lusus as a grub and was instead taken in by the Dolorosa, who became the first of his inner circle. The Psiioniic and the Disciple were soon to join as well.

Inspired by his visions, he spread word of a culture free from conflict and suppression based on blood color. This eventually resulted in a large scale sectarian revolt that would be crushed by the highbloods. After the revolt, he was captured and killed. Even though any reference to the revolt (including in private journalsHS.svg) was forbidden, his followers and teachings remained alive in secrecy, referring to him by the numbers 6 and 9 replacing the b and o respectively in sym69ls, as they resembled the cuffs confining him at his execution.

He was never as angry as Karkat until his torture, when his love for his people became an all consuming rage and hate that rang throughout paradox space as The Vast Expletive, his final sermon, in which all he said was "FUCK" (implied by Calliope) . In fact, it has been implied that the anger he felt during his final moments lives on in Karkat, with whom he shares the blood mutationHS.svg. As his name implies, the Signless was not given a symbol like other trolls normally are. It was through his instruments of punishment (shaped like the Cancer sign) that his followers gave him a sign, and a new title: the Sufferer.

The Signless (pictured right)

Aranea Serket implies that Kankri's ability as the Seer of Blood was not realized until his life as the Sufferer, where he remembered his time on Beforus. This could imply, like Darkleer's void abilities, that the ancestors also retained their pre-scratch titles and abilities, which would also make the Sufferer a Seer of Blood.

A plush version of The Signless appears in Hiveswap.

The Disciple

The Disciple, holding the Leggings.

Pre-scratch self is the Mage of Heart

The ancestor of Nepeta Leijon, and the post-scratch incarnation of Meulin Leijon, the Disciple was the Sufferer's most devoted follower. She listened to every vision he retold, every lesson he preached, and faithfully recorded his scripture. Eventually, they became matesprits, although it was said their love went beyond the four quadrants, transcending the grid entirely. To spread his message throughout the world, they took to the seas in the vessel of legend known as the First Ship, a transparent reference to "shipping".

The Disciple was to be executed along with the Sufferer, but the E%ecutor took pity on her and allowed her to escape, a likely parallel to Equius' moiraillegiance with Nepeta. She absconded with the Righteous Leggings, the only remaining evidence of the Sufferer's existence, and spent the rest of her life secluded in caves, recording the Sufferer's teachings on the walls with the blood of slain creatures. This parallels Nepeta's shipping wall. Her dedication was critical to the persistence of his message. The Disciple died, still very much in love with the Signless, which lived on in Nepeta's flushed crush on Karkat.

The Dolorosa

The Dolorosa, holding a grub Sufferer.

Pre-scratch self is the Maid of Space

The ancestor of Kanaya Maryam, and the post-scratch incarnation of Porrim Maryam. She raised the Sufferer to maturity from just a grub due to a chance meeting while she was running an errand. Due to her jade blood, she belonged to a rare class whose only duty was to tend to the mother grub in a cavern. Seeing no other chance for the Sufferer's survival, she abandoned this duty to raise him. In time, she became his first follower, and one of his close circle.

Her role as a mother figure for The Signless is reflected by Kanaya and Porrim towards Karkat and Kankri, respectively. Her adoption of his views reflects in both Porrim and Kankri taking interest in social justice.

After the Sufferer was executed, the Dolorosa was sold into slavery and spent the rest of her life as property of vicious sea dwellers. It is highly probable that she was the female slave Mindfang took an interest in. If this is true, then she was later assassinated by Dualscar. This mirrors the (admittedly complicated) red interests between both Porrim and Aranea and Vriska and Kanaya, as well as the fact that Kanaya is later killed (albeit temporarily) by Eridan.

The Dolorosa hissing at John when he "zaps" into the frame.

"Dolorosa" is the Latin word for "grieving", and serves as a traditional attribute of the Virgin Mary (in the full form "mater dolorosa," or "grieving mother"); thus bearing a connection to her (as well as her descendant's) symbol, Virgo. Additionally, "Via Dolorosa" is said to be the road that Jesus Christ walked on his way to the cross further consolidating The Sufferer and The Dolorosa as biblical counterparts to Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary.

In twoHS.svg panelsHS.svg as well as a flash pageHS.svg, the Dolorosa's eyes and mouth appear to be glowing with a bright yellow incandescence, suggesting that, like Kanaya and Porrim, she became a rainbow drinker at some point, and in this page's dialogueHS.svg John mentions that a vampire hissed at him while he was unstuck in canon.

Neophyte Redglare

Redglare, the neophyte legislacerator.

Pre-scratch self is the Knight of Mind

Redglare's partner and lusus, Pyralspite.

The ancestor of Terezi Pyrope, and the post-scratch incarnation of Latula Pyrope. She was a neophyte legislacerator who was sent to apprehend Mindfang and bring her to justice after the incident with Dualscar. She was said to be quite talented, but still inexperienced, as evidenced by the title "neophyte." She eventually captured Mindfang with the aid of her dragon lusus, Pyralspite. Not knowing about Pyralspite, Mindfang had understimated her. Mindfang's sensitive vision eightfold was burned out by looking into the dragon's bright eyes, and her arm was severed by Redglare. Unfortunately, Mindfang used her powers during her trial to turn the spectators' aggression towards Redglare, causing a riot that left her hanging from the very noose intended for Mindfang.

Redglare is shown wearing the sign of the Sufferer around her neck, signaling that she was part of that underground movement that supported his ideals after his death. This may be because Redglare supported the idea of equality, and, along with the fact that she was a keeper of justice, can be directly tied to her sign, Libra.

Notably, Pyralspite is the only known ancestor lusus (other than Gl'bgolyb, who is shared by both the Condesce and Feferi). Mindfang noted in her journal that Pyralspite swallowed her lusus whole, but Mindfang's lusus has never been seen or further described in-story.

Marquise Spinneret Mindfang

Pre-scratch self is the Sylph of Light

The ancestor of Vriska Serket, and the post-scratch incarnation of Aranea Serket. Mindfang was a pirate and the leader of a notoriously deadly fleet of Gamblignants.

In her youth, her descendant found a journal in an impact crater that detailed much of Mindfang's life, and had clues for hidden treasures, including the Fluorite Octet set of dice and massive piles of treasure. Mindfang was also the namesake for Vriska's Flarp character.

Her name, Spinneret, breaks the ancestors' naming system of using eight letters (unless you use Mindfang's quirk, making it Spinner8, which fits); the spinneret is the organ from which spiders produce their silk. However, her title, Marquise, preserves the pattern. It is implied that she could have been known in-universe as The Marquise. Her last name, Mindfang, which also preserves the pattern, is an obvious reference to her and Vriska's mind control abilities.

Through her journalHS.svg, it is revealed that she had a kismesissitude with Orphaner Dualscar, Eridan's ancestor, which may have been Vriska's inspiration for her relationship with Eridan. Mindfang seemed to have a habit of playing redrom games with various trolls, most of them of lower castes, which Dualscar despised and envied. The journal also reveals that Mindfang had a female slave lover, who is implied to have been Kanaya's ancestor, the Dolorosa. This would mirror the red feelings between Kanaya and Vriska (and Porrim and Aranea) that were present at one point.

After hearing that Neophyte Redglare was sent to apprehend her, she thought of it as little more than a joke. Underestimating the inexperienced Redglare, she was taken by surprise when the Neophyte confronted her together with her dragon lusus, Pyralspite. In the confrontation, Mindfang lost her vision eightfold to Pyralspite's scorching gaze, and Redglare tore off one of her arms, matching the injuries Terezi causes Vriska to suffer. Mindfang was then taken into custody until her trial.

Using her powers of manipulation, Mindfang successfully turned the onlooking crowd ofHS.svg lowbloods at the trial against Redglare, leaving her only to deal with His Honorable Tyranny to complete her escape. Having slain the beast with Redglare's staff, she met with E%ecutor Darkleer, who created a new robotic arm for her.

In addition to being the original owner of the Fluorite Octet claimed by Vriska, she has also been shown to be the previous owner of the all-knowing cue ball, and had communications with Doc Scratch (who called her his protege) in a manner similar to Vriska. Once she retrieved it from Darkleer's home, she hid it with her journal serving as the map, believing that knowing the future caused her more harm than good, particularly referring to her knowledge about her eventual death at the hands of her future flushed relationship, the Summoner. This might be the reason of Vriska's confused black-to-red feelings for Tavros. It is implied that Vriska used a map in the journal to find Darkleer's home and the ball.

Other than the Condesce and the Handmaid, Mindfang has so far had the most influence on the plot. The most obvious examples are the Pop-a-matic Vrillyhoo Hammer created by John from Mindfang's weapon and used to damage the health bar of Jack Noir, her cue ball being used to create Doc Scratch, and the karmic cycle of revenge that began with her and Neophyte Redglare.

E%ecutor Darkleer / The Expatri8

Mindfang discussing her terms with Darkleer.

Pre-scratch self is the Page of Void

The ancestor of Equius Zahhak, and the post-scratch incarnation of Horuss Zahhak. He is skilled in machinism of some kind that is analogous to his descendant's work in robotics. Unlike his descendant, both of Darkleer's horns and teeth are, at least when he is seen, unbroken.

He was tasked with executing the followers of the Sufferer, though he could not bring himself to kill the Disciple (implied to be due to pale feelings, as Equius and Nepeta have). For his failure, he was reprimanded by the Highbloods in the form of exile, and became the Expatri8, as Mindfang's journal calls him.

Mindfang escaped from her trial and seeks out Darkleer for a de8tHS.svg to be repaid in the form of a prosthetic arm. Mindfang has found that her admiration of Darkleer has vanished over the sweeps, as he continues to mourn the situation involving the Disciple and his banishment. She considered his work to be a good distraction for any grieving that might weigh on his mind.

Darkleer is thought by Mindfang to be surrounded by a Void that conceals him from Doc Scratch's omniscience. She left the cue ball with him so that Doc Scratch would not be able to locate it. This ability is most likely related to his alternate self and descendant being Void players and may provide an explanation for why Vriska was able to keep the Cue Ball hidden from Doc Scratch in turn.

The second part of his name, leer, is a German word and means empty. This may reference his descendant's and pre-scratch self's Void aspect. Leer could also reference that his descendant, Equius, has been said to stare, or leer.

The Grand Highblood

Pre-scratch self is the Prince of Rage

The ancestor of Gamzee Makara, the post-scratch incarnation of Kurloz Makara, and the leader of the subjugglators. Like his descendant, the Grand Highblood was violent and deadly, and belonged to a juggalo-like cult.

The Grand Highblood was in charge of keeping the lower castes in check during his reign, operating much as an enforcer for the Condesce's regime. However, he was known to be capricious and unpredictable, rendering this point moot. It's possible that he was responsible for the fate of the Sufferer and many of his followers. On post-scratch Earth, his role was mirrored by the Juggalo presidency.

After Dualscar's kismesissitude with Mindfang failed, he offered her location to the Highblood. Mindfang wrote in her journal that this plan either would, or already did, fail spectacularly due to the subjugglator's sanguinary nature, resulting in Dualscar's death. Despite this, the Highblood apparently took the threat Mindfang posed seriously, and sent his wild card, Neophyte Redglare, to apprehend her. His descendant mirrors this action by sending Terezi to deal with Vriska. The cause of the Grand Highblood's own death is unknown.

The Grand Highblood liked to decorate his wallsHS.svg with the blood of his victims. This gory rainbow included blood of all castes (excluding the Condesce's fuchsia, mutant candy red, and his own caste's purple, however it is the only time which lime blood appears and therefore the only in-comic evidence that it ever existed), which surely pleased himHS.svg. This mirrors Gamzee writing messages on walls with the blood of his fellow trolls, and writing messages with his own blood in the style of his fellow trolls.

The Grand Highblood is the only ancestor whose name does not follow the eight-letter rule at all. His acronym (GHB) could intentionally mimic that of gamma-hydroxybutyrate, a common "club drug", which alludes to both Gamzee's use of sopor slime and his clubkind strife specibus.

The Grand Highblood makes an appearance in Hiveswap Friendsim: Volume Nine via a video feed in clown church. This indicates that he is still alive prior to or around the time when Hiveswap takes place, and had indeed gone off-planet presumably after the Summoner’s rebellion. He is portrayed as being inexperienced with newer technology.

Orphaner Dualscar

Pre-scratch self is the Bard of Hope

The ancestor of Eridan Ampora, and the post-scratch incarnation of Cronus Ampora. He was Marquise Spinneret Mindfang's kismesis, and the original owner of Ahab's Crosshairs. The collar of his uniform is modeled much like an Imperial Drone's body which all trolls tend to fear. It is theorized that the drones likely came into place after the ancestors' time, meaning the drones would have been modeled after Dualscar's armor, and not the other way around.

He was prone to jealousy, despising Mindfang's redrom games with other trolls though she was already his kismesis. One evening Mindfang stole slaves from his hold and when he pursued her, she attempted to force him to watch her as she mind-controlled one of his slaves (presumably The Dolorosa). It is written that as he watched he became disgusted and repulsed with her for her deed and left in a revolted fury. Extremely bitter about this display, he rejected her as his kismesis and had the slave assassinated either out of anger, jealousy, or pity for the slave.

He also placed a bounty even larger than the one he had on Mindfang's head. It is also mentioned that he had a redrom interest in the Condesce, which she hurt the battery Mindfang threatened to use as a means to blackmail him. "Orphaner" is likely a reference to Eridan's – and possibly Dualscar's – duty of killing other trolls' lusii in order to feed Gl'bgolyb, leaving them orphaned.

He attempted to inform the Grand Highblood of Mindfang's location, but was killed by the subjugglator for being unable to tell a decent joke.

Since both Ahab's Crosshairs and the Fluorite Octet were found on the same ship by Eridan and Vriska, it remains a possibility that Mindfang likely stole the weapon before or after his death.

Her Imperious Condescension / The Condesce

Condesce on throne.gif
Main article: The Condesce
Pre-scratch self is the Thief of Life.

The Condesce (pronounced /ˈkɒn.dɛs/ kon-dess), also known by her full title Her Imperious Condescension, is the ancestor of Feferi Peixes, and the post-scratch incarnation of Meenah Peixes. The Condesce was the empress of Alternia during the events of Hiveswap and later Hivebent, and had held that position since before the other troll players' ancestors even arrived on Alternia. Her name is the eight-letter shortening of the word "condescension", which highlights her possession of said quality.

Pre-scratch ancestors

For the post-scratch versions of these ancestors, see post-scratch trolls.

Very little is known about the Beforan ancestors as only a single one is mentioned. However as Kankri Vantas does not appear to have a sign, it may mean his ancestor, pre-scratch Karkat, did nothing to result in the creation of a sign for descendant.

Meenah's ancestor (pre-scratch Feferi)

Post-scratch self is the Witch of Life

Being mentioned a few times by both Meenah and Aranea, but not making any actual appearance, it is implied that as the ruling fuchsiablood on Beforus, she was the reason behind the softer meaning of 'culling', other than the lack of Doc Scratch's influence.


Disclaimer: This timeline is not to scale and only depicts extremely approximate timelines for the ancestors and points in their life in relation to each other, as many events surrounding the ancestors took place over unknown periods of time; for example, Mindfang and Dualscar are both shown on the table as arriving on their Reckoning meteors around the same time, however the differing lifespans of different blood castes could easily have allowed Dualscar to have been born centuries before Mindfang, but this does not exclude the possibility that Mindfang may have instead been older than Dualscar. The positioning and scaling of the events is also restricted by the limitations of the coding used to construct the timeline.

Numerous details are not elaborated on in the story; for example, it is not known how or when the Grand Highblood died, other than that it was some time before Hivebent (but presumably after Friendsim), nor is it known when the limeblood genocide occurred, other than being before the lives of the A2 Sgrub players. Such gaps are left blank.

Handmaid Summoner Ψiioniic Sufferer Disciple Dolorosa Redglare Mindfang Darkleer Highblood Dualscar Condesce
Time travel in the service of Lord English Born*
Born* Born* Born* Born* Born*
Born* Born* Born* Raises Sufferer Born*
Follower of Sufferer Preaching Follower and lover of Sufferer Follower of Sufferer
Enlisted as Helmsman Executed Spared by Darkleer Sold into slavery Exiled
Serves as Helmsman Seclusion and eventual death Killed by Dualscar Captures Mindfang Captured and maimed by Redglare Seclusion and eventual death Kills Dualscar Killed by Highblood
Hanged by lowbloods Escapes trial Eventual death
Relationship with Mindfang Relationship with Summoner
Kills Mindfang Killed by Summoner
Revolt fails Bans adult trolls from Alternia
Dies in the Vast Glub 612 sweep long return trip to Alternia
Raised by Doc Scratch
Young self enters service of English

Older self killed by Condesce
Arrives at Alternia, confronted by and kills older iteration of the Handmaid
Enters kids' universe

*Arrived by meteors delivered by the Reckoning

Connections between ancestors and descendants

Many of the ancestors' interactions are inverted by the troll players. Dualscar killed the slave, who was likely the Dolorosa, the Summoner killed Mindfang, Dualscar was possibly killed on the orders of Her Imperious Condescension with the Grand Highblood as her proxy, and Mindfang arranged Redglare's death. Accordingly, Eridan temporarily kills Kanaya, who then permanently kills him in return (both imitating and inverting the ancestors' case), Vriska kills Tavros, Eridan kills Feferi, and Terezi kills Vriska. This likely has to do with the troll kids finishing what the ancestors startedHS.svg (i.e. getting revenge).

Other events are paralleled. Redglare's dragon, Pyralspite, disabled Mindfang's vision eightfold, while Terezi informed Doc Scratch of Vriska's possession of the magic cue ball, causing him to explode it in her face, and disabling her vision eightfold. However while Mindfang subsequently killed Redglare, Vriska merely blinded Terezi in retaliation.

A more complicated addition to the above two points occurs when Tavros prepares to revive his complicated possible romantic interest Vriska with a kiss, when she was almost dead. She prevents him from doing this, however, and then exhorts him to kill her. Meanwhile, the Summoner is known to have killed Mindfang, who was his matesprit.

Many of the troll kids' titles bestowed by Sgrub fit with their ancestors' roles in history, while their "dancestors" have titles that fit in with other parts of these roles:

  • Aradia is the Maid of Time, corresponding directly to the time-travelling Handmaid, while Damara's title as the Witch of Time reflects the cruelty and violence she stirred up at Lord English's behest.
  • Tavros is the Page of Breath, relating his (supposed) wind abilities and rocket chair to the Summoner's wing mutation and flight abilities; Rufioh's title as the Rogue of Breath may be a pun on his "going rogue".
  • Sollux is the Mage of Doom, corresponding with the Ψiioniic being a powerful mage of unequaled telekinetic ability and his ill fate; Mituna, as the Heir of Doom, may tie into how his fate was passed down from another universe.
  • Karkat is the Knight of Blood, connecting his and the Sufferer's unique candy-red blood mutation; Kankri's role as the Seer reflects their abilities to see each other's alternate lives, as well as the Sufferer's status as a visionary.
  • Nepeta is the Rogue of Heart, and like the Disciple engages in unconventional behavior for the sake of the people she loves; Meulin's title as the Mage of Heart may reflect the Disciple's recording of the Sufferer's various lessons and the story of his life.
  • Kanaya is the Sylph of Space, endowing her with the role of a healer, while Porrim is the Maid of Space, leaving her with breeding duties. The Dolorosa, in her nourishing maternal role, mirrors both.
  • Terezi is the Seer of Mind, and could relate to Redglare's name and her dragon lusus Pyralspite's burning glare in the same way that Latula, the Knight of Mind, could relate to using her wits (and therefore her mind) to catch Mindfang.
  • Vriska, the Thief of Light, or fortune, is the descendant of Mindfang, a pirate and Gamblignant; Aranea, as the Sylph of Light, could relate to her commissioning a new arm from Darkleer to distract him from his crippling depression.
  • Equius, the Heir of Void, inherited Darkleer's void powers; Horuss, the Page of Void, reflects how Darkleer was almost a warrior but failed to live up to his duty.
  • Gamzee's fulfillment of his role as Bard of Rage also recognizes his hatchright as a high subjugglator; Kurloz's role as the Prince of Rage reflects how, in another life, he would rise to become their leader.
  • Eridan, the Prince of Hope, is the descendant of Dualscar, who was presumably also nobility, and both of whom were charged with hunting other trolls' lusii; Cronus, as the Bard, reflected his alternate self's status as a wandering pirate.
  • Feferi is the Witch of Life, corresponding directly to the life-extending Batterwitch; as the Thief of Life, Meenah reflects how the Batterwitch could steal lives through her lusus or her agents.

Both Sollux and the Helmsman were killed simultaneously as a result of the Vast Glub, fitting their duality theme.

It is possible that the emotions/thoughts of the troll ancestors affected the descendants, most prominently Nepeta's feeling of love towards Karkat and Karkat's angry, hateful nature.

Biblical allusions

Several ancestors, as well as Doc Scratch's interference in the events concerning them, are direct references to biblical characters, especially surrounding the tales involving Jesus Christ. Hussie has commented extensively on this topic on his Formspring.

  • The tale of the Sufferer teaching peacefully, his martyrdom, and the adoption of the device used in his torture as a symbol by his followers are references to Jesus. The Sufferer could also be a reference to Moses, paralleling his adoption by Pharaoh's daughter, his mission to save his people in slavery, and the reference between him and his brother (a possible reference to Karkat and Gamzee).
  • The Ψiioniic could reference to the apostle Peter; both were good friends of their respective messiahs, and were later punished in a way that they would suffer greatly. In reference to Moses, he could represent Moses' best friend, brother, and staunch supporter, Aaron.
  • The Disciple may parallel Mark the Evangelist, whose symbol was a lion. They both were faithful disciples and recorded their masters' teachings. The beloved disciple is another candidate (and is theorized to have been John the Apostle). He was present at Jesus' crucifixion, and The Book of John was written based on his written testimony. She could also be a counterpart of Mary Magdalene, who was a disciple of Jesus and theorized by some scholars to have been his lover or wife. In reference to Moses, the Disciple could parallel to Tzipporah, Moses' wife. She was considered "wild," from a tribe scorned by the Egyptians.
  • The Dolorosa, as the adoptive mother of the Christ-like Sufferer, parallels the Virgin Mary. Mater Dolorosa is a famous statue of the Bible's Mary, in an attitude of grief as she beholds the crucifixion of her son Jesus, and her visible heart is pierced with a sword to display such despair. Mary's birth is also celebrated during the Virgo period, on September 8. Kanaya Maryam's surname is drawn from an Arabic term for the Virgin Mary. In reference to Moses, she could reference Pharaoh's daughter, and/or Jochebed, Moses' birth mother.
  • The E%ecutor parallels Pontius Pilate, the Roman who was tasked to kill Jesus Christ, as well as the semi-apocryphal figure Longinus, the soldier who wounded Jesus during his crucifixion, since Darkleer shot the Sufferer with an arrow during his flogging. Additionally, while Pilate was reluctant to execute Jesus, Darkleer refused to execute the Disciple.
  • Complacent Beforus (the A1 session) was transformed into to conflict-wrought Alternia (the A2 session), through the scratch and bargain with Echidna. This is a Biblical parallel in which Beforus represents the Garden of Eden, Alternia represents the "real world", the bargain with Echidna represents the manipulation of the serpent, and the scratch represents the consumption from the Tree of the Knowledge. John's original biting of the blue apple notably symbolizes the consumption from the Tree of Knowledge as well. Doc Scratch is also a direct reference to the devil. He appeared in the post-scratch universe after the A1 players make a "deal with the devil," which grants them their wish (of restarting the session) but creates a violent, cruel world and a doomed session. Notably, "Old Scratch" is an old-timey name for the devil.

Mythological allusions

Several ancestors, as well as Doc Scratch's interference in the events concerning them, can be interpreted as direct references to characters from the mythological tales involving ancient Greek/Roman gods, in particular the story of Prometheus. Prometheus was a peaceful titan, the only one that sided with Zeus against Cronus. In the battle against Cronus, Hekatonchires were released from Cronus's hold in the Underworld, and helped overthrow him with their awesome strength. Prometheus is generally considered wise and represents aforethought. He is the only one that knew who the mother of Zeus' son, the one destined by prophecy to overthrow him, was. For loving men, and for knowing this knowledge, he was sentenced to agonizing torture by being bound to a rock on a mountainside eternally, and an eagle eating his liver over and over, since gods can regenerate. Not a word was spoken as he was tortured and about thirty years later, Chiron, a centaur, took his place and died for him. Zeus accepted Chiron's sacrifice and freed Prometheus from this torture. However, so Zeus did not appear to be going back on his command of eternal punishment, a piece of the mountainside was put into a ring made from a link in the chains Prometheus was bound by. Another telling says instead of Chiron being sacrificed, Heracles simply slew the eagle and freed Prometheus.

There's a Greek tragedy called Prometheus Bound. In the play, Prometheus is chained to a mountain, much like how the Sufferer is shown chained to a high place. He's credited with playing a key role in Zeus coming into power and the chaining is considered a harsh betrayal. In the story Zeus wanted to obliterate all of mankind, but Prometheus somehow stopped him. It consists mainly of speeches and is the first story in a trilogy called Prometheia.

Alternian could be a nuance of Athenian. Athenians are known to be the only ones to have any religious temple to Prometheus. They originally made a torch race in honor of Prometheus that started and ended at his altar and had regular celebrations on the calendar for him.

  • The tale of the Sufferer (Prometheus): a peaceful man that also represents rebellion, was very wise, and had a prophecy that eventually someone would rise to overthrow this form of rule, and was severely tortured by the Condesce (Zeus). The Sufferer is shot where the liver would be located, and the eagle is said to have eaten Prometheus's liver once every day. Prometheus has been referred to in ancient and modern stories as the sufferer. The chain link from Prometheus's shackles made into a ring with a pebble of the mountainside attached to it became a symbol of Prometheus much like how the Sufferer's shackles became his symbol. Prometheus's name means 'forethought', possibly referenced by the Sufferer's role as a seer by foretelling future events. He was known for being adept at prophecy, and he desired to share all his knowledge with mankind, a desire not met with approval from the gods.
  • Karkat at one point says to John that MY HATE IS THE LIFEBLOOD THAT PULSES THROUGH THE VEINS OF YOUR UNIVERSE. IT IS MY GIFT TO YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME FOR THAT. YOU UNGRATEFUL PIECE OF SHIT. Since Karkat's the descendant of the Sufferer (Prometheus), this can be taken as an allusion to Prometheus, since he's credited with creating the human race from clay and water, or to his gift of fire.
  • The tale of the Condesce (Zeus): a wrathful being more powerful than all other ancestors (Gods) that tortured the Sufferer. The Condesce controlls powerful blasts of energy as well as a potent thrown weapon (her trident), parreleling Zeus' lightning. She also shares Zeus' wishes to overthrow Lord English (the Lord of Time - the titan of time is Chronos, which sounds similar to Cronus, Zeus' father). Less relevant parralels can also be drawn to Poseidon and Hera.
  • The tale of the Expatri8 (Chiron the Centaur), a centaur that took pity on (instead of the Sufferer/Prometheus) the Disciple, and freed her. However, instead of death in the mythological tale, he is outcast by the Condesce (Zeus).
  • The tale of the Expatri8 (Hephaestus), a god known for being lame (a pun if nothing else) and was a great craftsmen who made weapons for all the gods (Ancestors). The Expatri8 built a new arm for Mindfang. Both Horuss and Equius, his descendant and counterpart, are gifted at advanced metalwork and robotics, including the repair of lamed individuals; Hephaestus was known for building automatons. Hephaestus fell from Heavens (twice) on account of his lameness - just as the E%ecutor earned the titled of E%patri8 on account of his weakness.
  • The tale of the Grand High Blood (Dionysus): a god of alcohol wine known for raucous festivities and ritual madness. Gamzee, the descendant of the Highblood, consumes large quanities of the narcotic Sopor Slime, and both he and the Grand High Blood are known for their fits of madness, their religiousity of the Grand Highblood, and their involvement with a wild festival - the Dark Carnival. Dionysus interestingly was once a beloved pupil of the centaur Chiron.
  • The tales of Mindfang and Redglare (Athena and Arachne). Athena was born from Zeus's forehead and is a goddess known for her mass of skills and mental prowess as well as prowess in womanly arts, war, and justice. Arachne is a princess of Colophon whose skills in weaving surpassed even Athena. Arachne entered a weaving contest with Athena and won; but, fearing Athena's wrath, instead hung herself. Athena turned Arachne into a spider and the noose into a web. Arachne scuttled away and escaped further wrath. Arachne's name is connected to the word Arachnid (spider). All five of Mindfang, Redglare, Terezi, Vriska and Aranea are shown to be smart and scheming characters, with skills in seduction as well as conflict. Many of these characters manifest psychic or Mind-aspect powers via a glowing symbol on their forehead while straining - Athena was originally a headache of Zeus. Athena's major role as a patron/matron of justice is an obvious connection to Redglare and Terezi, as is Arachne's arrogance and spider-fate to Mindfang and Vriska. However, in a cruel inversion of roles Redglare would be hung as a product of Mindfang's machinations, highlighting that both ancestors have connections to both mythological figures. If Athena is seen as the mind of Zeus as he experienced a headache, then Redglare and Terezi are the Mind of Athena while Mindfang and Vriska are the pain.
  • Lord English, despite not being an ancestor (Cronus and Chronos): Cronus was a universal ruler and destroyer, and like most titans, is considered a cruel, powerful but weak-hearted ruler, who ate his own children (Lord English destroys the universes in which he inveigles himself) and was overthrown by the plots of Zeus (The Condesce). This allegory by genealogy would make Caliborn and Calliope's parents metaphors for Uranus and Gaia; Uranus rained and struck the Earth (planets) with lighnting which Gaia sought to halt, unsuccessfully until the conception of their child Cronus. In an inversion, the mother of the Cherub siblings won, forcing the father to deposit an egg onto a barren earth. Chronos, which sounds largely identical to Cronus, is the embodiment of time, and is of the oldest and most abstract of the primordial titans; like most of his kin, he is considered a mindless entity whose tremendous power is a background force, awesome yet distant.
  • The Horrorterrors, despite not being ancestors, fit this allegory (Hekatonchires): A legion of hundred-armed, fifty-headed giants, they were the tortured siblings of the titans, powerful but aesthetically-horrifying creatures; this parralels the Horrorterror's inhuman tentacled appearance. The Hekatonchires help Cronus defeat Uranus but are then betrayed and resealed by him, and later give their aid to Zeus (the Condesce, who was raised by a lesser zoologically-dubious creature) in overthrowing Cronus. For their dark nature and appearance, they are supposedly useful and helpful creatures, providing assistance when they are afforded leave of their dark realm.

Homestuck Characters
Heir of Breath Breath Aspect.svg Seer of Light Light Aspect.svg Knight of Time Time Aspect.svg Witch of Space Space Aspect.svg
JohnLogo.svg John Egbert RoseLogo.svg Rose Lalonde DaveLogoSlashed.png Dave Strider JadeLogo.png Jade Harley
ectoBiologist [EB]
ghostyTrickster [GT]
tentacleTherapist [TT] turntechGodhead [TG] gardenGnostic [GG]
Maid of Life Life Aspect.svg Rogue of Void Void Aspect.svg Prince of Heart Heart Aspect.svg Page of Hope Hope Aspect.svg
JaneLogo.png Jane Crocker RoxyLogo.png Roxy Lalonde DirkLogo.png Dirk Strider JakeLogo.png Jake English
gutsyGumshoe [GG] tipsyGnostalgic [TG] timaeusTestified [TT] golgothasTerror [GT]
Maid of Time Time Aspect.svg Page of Breath Breath Aspect.svg Mage of Doom Doom Aspect.svg Knight of Blood Blood Aspect.svg
Aries.svg Aradia Megido Taurus.svg Tavros Nitram Gemini.svg Sollux Captor Cancer.svg Karkat Vantas
apocalypseArisen [AA] adiosToreador [AT] twinArmageddons [TA] carcinoGeneticist [CG]
Rogue of Heart Heart Aspect.svg Sylph of Space Space Aspect.svg Seer of Mind Mind Aspect.svg Thief of Light Light Aspect.svg
Leo.svg Nepeta Leijon Virgo.svg Kanaya Maryam Libra.svg Terezi Pyrope Scorpio.svg Vriska Serket
arsenicCatnip [AC] grimAuxiliatrix [GA] gallowsCalibrator [GC] arachnidsGrip [AG]
Heir of Void Void Aspect.svg Bard of Rage Rage Aspect.svg Prince of Hope Hope Aspect.svg Witch of Life Life Aspect.svg
Sagittarius.svg Equius Zahhak Capricorn.svg Gamzee Makara Aquarius.svg Eridan Ampora Pisces.svg Feferi Peixes
centaursTesticle [CT] terminallyCapricious [TC] caligulasAquarium [CA] cuttlefishCuller [CC]
Witch of Time Time Aspect.svg Rogue of Breath Breath Aspect.svg Heir of Doom Doom Aspect.svg Seer of Blood Blood Aspect.svg
Aries.svg Damara Megido Taurus.svg Rufioh Nitram Gemini.svg Mituna Captor Kankri Vantas
Mage of Heart Heart Aspect.svg Maid of Space Space Aspect.svg Knight of Mind Mind Aspect.svg Sylph of Light Light Aspect.svg
Leo.svg Meulin Leijon Virgo.svg Porrim Maryam Libra.svg Latula Pyrope Scorpio.svg Aranea Serket
Page of Void Void Aspect.svg Prince of Rage Rage Aspect.svg Bard of Hope Hope Aspect.svg Thief of Life Life Aspect.svg
Sagittarius.svg Horuss Zahhak Capricorn.svg Kurloz Makara Aquarius.svg Cronus Ampora Pisces.svg Meenah Peixes
Muse of Space Space Aspect.svg Lord of Time Time Aspect.svg
Calliope symbol.png Calliope (Alt) Caliborn symbol.png Caliborn
uranianUmbra [UU] undyingUmbrage [uu]
Dad Roxy Lalonde
Dirk Strider
God Cat Rose Lalonde
Dave Strider
Jane Egbert Jaspers Lil Cal Jake Harley
John Crocker Mutie Lil Hal Jade English
Nannasprite Jaspersprite Calsprite
Arquiusprite Erisolsprite
Carapacians /
Wayward Vagabond Peregrine Mendicant Aimless Renegade Windswept Questant Writ Keeper
Jack Noir (B2) (Dead Session) Draconian Dignitary (B2) Hegemonic Brute Courtyard Droll
Midnight Crew
Spades Slick Diamonds Droog Hearts Boxcars Clubs Deuce
The Felt
Lord English Doc Scratch Snowman
Typheus Cetus Hephaestus Echidna
Hemera Nix Yaldabaoth Abraxas
Salamanders Turtles Crocodiles Iguanas
Imps Ogres Basilisks Liches Giclopses
Other Black QueenBlack KingSkaian armiesGenesis FrogLususAncestors (The Condesce)HorrorterrorsBetty CrockerColonel SassacreCaseyGuy FieriInsane Clown PosseMaplehoofRambunctious CrowHalleySerenityMSPA ReaderMs. PaintAndrew HussieSawtoothSquarewaveHis Honorable TyrannyCalliope and Caliborn's parentsAngelsFantrolls


Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.