Talk: Gate

Confusing order/locations?

Is anybody else confused by the order/locations of the gates? I really don't get it. I mean, first of all, aren't the gate supposed to be layed out vertically? Why is John's second gate nowhere near his first? And I really don't get the whole "round robin" idea. I think a "Gate Order" page should be created to clear this up. Diacritical 04:05, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty confused about it myself, with John now in Rose's world. I added a speculation of mine related to this to the Denizens article, but I could be absolutely wrong (especially since I assumed John would connect to Jade via the Cosbytop laptop, which is now apparently unfound/left behind as he has gone onward). Cappabitch 04:31, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

If the Cosbytop doesn't return, John may end up using his glasses as his server controller for Jade. Darkcloud5467 12:57, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

John can always create a new computer if he needs one; such is the nature of punch-card alchemy. Moss. 12:30, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Gate Progression

The gate progression is actually quite easy. Let me make a quick chart of John's progression

INCORRECT DIAGRAM

I think I messed up the progression somewhere but he will end up shooting out of his 6th gate above his house then progress through the 7th back into his land to his Denizen. In short, it's pretty much another reach-around type thing. EDIT: I DID screw up the progression.

I also tried this out with other sets of numbers and got this:

With x being the number of players in a session: number of gates = x + 3.

I'm not all too sure on that one, but try it out before you guys make any sudden changes to the gate order. Kaxiyu 05:59, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that progression is right. Or maybe it just confused me. Here is how I think it is structured. So that when john leaves jade's 6th gate he will show up near his seventh gate which will take him to his Denizen.Loverdesang 06:48, August 26, 2010 (UTC) ------------------->

Edit:I thought about it and it can't work... unless they are supposed to fight the denizens together.

Indeed. It's hard to get at first, but I tried doomed timeline scenario when Jade doesn't enter. Dave ended up with his Final Gate being Gate 5 ABOVE HIS HOUSE, which is how he was in LOCAH. For John's gate progression, follow the blue arrow from his first gate.Kaxiyu 07:19, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

INCORRECT DIAGRAM

Here's Dave's Gate Progression. Kaxiyu 08:01, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Correct except that you have him going back down to his own sixth gate after going to the Land of Light and Rain... and it just sort of ends there? I don't get what that was supposed to be. Anyways, the way the progression goes according to Andrew's diagram is that they do the whole round robin thing until they wind up at the Denizen's palace in their client's Land (so John would fight Jade's Denizen, Rose would fight John's, Dave would fight Rose's, Jade would fight Dave's)-- after which they exit out the other side of their own seventh gate, where they presumably continue on to Skaia. Majutsukai 08:16, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering about that. I knew I messed up the gate thing at some point. Thank you. Kaxiyu 08:20, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

http://a.imageshack.us/img265/1171/hsjohngate2.png

Here's the correction. --Kaxiyu 08:43, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I think that's the way it's gonna go. I made a map too, but it's terrible. Enjoy! --Pigbuster 08:48, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Now that I think of it, this entire thing is invalid. I forgot that there are gates scattered around the world in addition to the gates above each house. So... I guess I don't get it as well as I thought I did. --Pigbuster 08:15, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Gate progression summary. Another one.

Okay, this whole thing confuses me. I've written a summary type thing to help me wrap my head around it.

This summary removes Jade from the equation, because her world hasn't been revealed yet and its already too damn confusing with only 3 people. Also, it is written with the assumption that the kids do exactly what they Sburb's designers intended them to do, even though in the actual comic they have all broken all the rules. All of them.

Housegates, gates positioned above a client's house, lead to the surface of their respective planets, each one going to a more dangerous area than the last. The last, highest housegate leads to the world's Denizen, AKA the final boss of each player's host.

Worldgates, gates scattered around the world itself, lead to the world of the client's host.

John w/ Rose builds to housegate 1 and enters. Goes somewhere in LOWAS.

Rose w/ Dave builds to housegate 1 and enters. Goes somewhere in LOLAR.

Dave w/ John builds to housegate 1 and enters. Goes somewhere in LOHAC.

John's 2nd gate is off in LOWAS somewhere near where housegate 1 took him.

He can return to his house again using a return node, and can presumably go back to the surface by entering housegate 1 again.

All of the kids grind for experience in the wilderness of their respective worlds, using return nodes to return to their literal "home" base, all the while continuing to build their client's houses up. Eventually they are of a high enough level to get to worldgate 2.

Housegate 2 in LOWAS would lead somewhere deeper into the world than housegate 1. It has not, to my knowledge, been made clear if a player can enter their own housegate 2 or not. I'm not entirely sure what forces them to use their worldgate. Possibly they don't have to do so at all and can just stay inside of their own world rather than going to their hosts. This is confusing. (See afterthoughts below)

John enters worldgate 2 on LOWAS, exits out of housegate 2 in LOLAR. Rose, his host, can now build on LOLAR.

Rose enters worldgate 2 on LOLAR, exits out of housegate 2 in LOHAC. Dave, her host, can now build on LOHAC.

Dave enters worldgate 2 on LOHAC, exits out of housegate 2 in LOWAS. John, his host, can now build on LOWAS.

Because the kids kept building up during the grinding period, none of them fall to their deaths.

They each then build their client's houses up to housegate 3, enter, and look for their 4th worldgates.

John enters worldgate 4 on LOLAR, exits out of housegate 4 in LOHAC. Rose, his host, can now build on LOHAC.

Rose enters worldgate 4 on LOHAC, exits out of housegate 4 in LOWAS. Dave, her host, can now build on LOWAS.

Dave enters worldgate 4 on LOWAS, exits out of housegate 4 in LOLAR. John, his host, can now build on LOLAR.

They, once again, build up. This leads to the 5th and final housegate. Note that the number of gates is equal to [# of players * 2 - 1]. Housegate 5 leads to the deepest part of its respective world, where each player will have to fight the denizen of their client's first world.

If they win, they go into the 5th and final worldgate, which leads to Skaia, where unlimited creative potential awaits. Hopefully it involves prizes.

The most confusing thing about this system for me is the existence of two versions of the same gate, one above the house and one in the land, both leading different places. Why the heck wouldn't each player just stay at their own house and build up and enter their own housegates? I mean, they have to build each house up to the next gate anyway because if they don't then the next player in line will fall to their deaths on arrival. It just perplexes me and the troll arc really isn't even attempting to clear things up.

One thing is that no one has to actually go into the even-numbered housegates. 1 3 and 5 lead to the land, and the world gates there lead to 2 and 4 of their host's house. What happens when someone enters either of those housegates? If Rose decided to bypass her 1st worldgate and built up to her 2nd housegate and entered, would she go to LOWAS? Specifically that tall spire in LOWAS John pchoooo'd into? Is it possible to do the whole game backwards like that?

Probably the best explanation is that Sburb is a really open-ended game that gives a lot of freedom to the player in terms of progression. Or something. --Pigbuster 08:13, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

The troll arc is clearing up a few things, namely that the Lands have puzzles and information that the game expects you to find. It would also be pretty self-defeating to just build around the gates, since you'd be a lower level when you reached the final gate if you took that approach. Assuming it's even structurally possible to build around them without your building collapsing eventually. Majutsukai 13:27, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

I'd assume you'd have to build around the gate to the next one in order to make it high enough so your client won't fall and die when they get in. I get that people are supposed to adventure and use the worldgates because those lead to the next "level", which is more interesting than just having the player stay in their house on their planet, especially since they won't gain all that many levels that way. However, is there anything forcing the player to do that, other than the sprite's suggestion? If they followed their sprites suggestion to the letter, then why wouldn't they just go for the worldgate and not bother building up to the second gate at all? Would their sprite hint that they should still build up to housegate 2 even if they aren't going to go into that one? Note that the page in which most of the gate's mechanics have been explained is this one.

Just to clarify: by "building around", I meant specifically building to avoid the gates-- such that the player never accidentally passes through one (they're pretty big, aren't they?)-- wouldn't be structurally feasible. That was what I meant to say. As for why they build up, it seems to me that most setups are such that going any other way would be either unreasonably difficult or impossible-- John's house was on a gigantic spire of earth, Rose's was in the middle of an ocean, Tavros's was in the middle of a sandy desert (wheelchair, remember), Feferi's was in a giant glass bowl. Plus, it's reasonable to assume that Gate 1 will put you somewhere reasonably close to the Gate 2, such that searching for it would be easier. Majutsukai 22:03, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

To me, the gates look like each could fit in a room of the house, so building around them would be quite easy actually. Medinoc 14:10, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

More Charts

Alright this still confuses me. Did I get this right?

~Octachorn 23:16, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

You may have, though more numbering may help (ex: #3 is "worldgate 2", #10 is the client's "worldgate 4"). Also, we don't know if those are bidirectional.Medinoc 14:08, December 2, 2010 (UTC)

The following map has been submitted in a frank and forthright manner for the Wiki editors' judicious appraisal.

I found this while doing my own research on the matter of gate progression. To me, this makes sense if you assume that the last gate of any given planet leads to the denizen of the next planet. After all, nowhere is it explicitly confirmed (to my knowledge, at least) that John was killed by HIS denizen. Just "the denizen". Whoops, I take that back. Dead John pretty much confirmed that it was Typheus who killed him, so . . . I guess this diagram is inaccurate after all. It occurs to me that everything I just did may have been a colossal waste of time. =/

Mister Nemesis 11:21, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Hey I am the one who made the above picture, why did you save it all shitty like that. Better quality below. This chart is completely correct, according to Davesprite's explanation of their workings, round robin style, with the 7th gate of each house going to where the land's denizen is. The gate layout here I'm pretty sure is correct, I just think that maybe who goes through which gates is up to the players, and probably doesn't matter too much. Had the kids followed the paths I made, each kid would actually end up fighting their client player's denizen. Maybe this is the correct way to play the game, who knows.

There is a 4th Land Gate that I put, but I just guessed at its existance, back before alternate John regaled his story about dying to Typheus. It probably doesn't exist. I assumed that maybe it went to Skaia, or since the 'wrong' kid goes through it that it took them back to their land, right where their denizen is.

Incidentally, one of Hussie's formspring questions/answers from way back suggested that if you go through a gate before your server player has entered the medium (thus making the gates appear) then the gates destinations change to adapt to this. Can't provide evidence he said that though, and also maybe it doesn't even matter.

7 or 4?

Are there even 7 gates above the houses?

Because when we see John enter the Medium, We can only see 4 gates above his house, meaning they could be Gates 1, 3, 5, and 7, While the 3 in his land are Gates 2, 4, and 6.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

GodOfLesserKings (talk) 14:25, April 12, 2016 (UTC)