Talk: Mortality

(un)conditional (im)mortality

both the terms conditional mortality, and unconditional immortality appear in the comic, they are applied the Handmaid and to LE respectively, I'm not sure if they have a place in the article but it seems like the kind of thing that would belong to me. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 23:52, November 24, 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: Come to think of it I guess that unconditional mortality would be reasonably assumed to be the status of a character who may be killed in any situation, but since deterministic forces seem to be at work to provide an alpha timeline I wonder if any character could actually be said to have that status Whohoohuwhu (talk) 23:56, November 24, 2014 (UTC)

Both conditional mortality and unconditional immortality already have sections on this page. Granted, the latter is a placeholder one that talks about snake sex, but it still counts.

Also, just to pick up your musing on unconditional mortality and run with it for the sake of amusement, I'd say that the forces pervading paradox space no more invalidate the concept of unconditional mortality than the deaths of gods in GAME OVER invalidate conditional immortality merely by being a doomed or to-be-retconned timeline. Whether or not the alpha likes it, it does happen in some timeline or other. There's also the option of considering unimportant people who pspace gives no fucks about. For example, I think we can safely suggest that the Sburb walkthrough writers on GameFAQs were unconditionally mortal -- Sorceror Nobody, 00:41, November 25, 2014 (UTC)

I hate to throw this in before the deadline, especially after the article is coming along so nicely, but kanaya is undead and has a reverse affect to janes anti-mortality powers. Would that make her unconditionally amortal or conditionally amortal?  Revitalysis 01:40, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

We can add it in later, the page meets the quality standard as is. But oddly enough... I think Kanaya's immortality might be most analagous to Gamzee's, where she is "immortal" but easily killed by suche methods as beheading, bifurcation, or vaporization. Aepokk ∀ulpex 03:09, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

As I've just noted on the VfFA, we have no actual indication that Kanaya and Porrim even are any form of immortal/undead after the initial revival to rainbow drinker status, and also no suggestion that the condition is granted through paradox space rather than merely being a biological trait of the blood caste.

Remember, everything said about the effect of Jane's power on Kanaya may well have been bullshit -- Sorceror Nobody, 14:57, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

I agree with SN, there is no indication of immortality/undead status for the Maryams, plus it is implied all Jade bloods turn into rainbow drinkers (that is a different discussion but still relevant), but if that is indeed true then Kanaya seemed to be pretty ignorant of everything regarding that.

"“It Sounds As Though Youre Suggesting That I Have Qualities Similar To Certain Types Of Shadow Droppers Which Is Not Quite The Case But Even If It Was There Are A Lot Of Myths About Shadow Dropper Physiology That Are Commonly Perpetuated By Popular...”"

Also Kanaya basically outright states that the information Jade has about her status is basically bullshit, even citing myths and popular culture as sources of the misinformation, which sort of explains why Kanaya didn't know the truth about rainbow drinkers prior to becoming one, as troll culture basically only talks about the myths and legends as opposed to the reality of an entire hemospecturum caste. - The Light6 (talk) 15:37, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

Inability to keep down the clown

It's don't look like the "clowns are difficult to kill" applies to other than Gamzee. The Jugallos of Alternia died easily by the vast glub, Kurloz died by the Meenah's bomb and the rappers president clowns died in a two vs one fight against PSDave.

So look like this just applies to Gamzee. Jpae20 (talk) 17:57, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

weren't there only young trolls on alternia? do we know how many of them had purple blood and dressed as clowns? Kurloz doesn't look much like a clown (then again maybe alternia has a different conception of clowns than I do) and who said ICP was an easy fight? Whohoohuwhu (talk) 19:05, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, i mean from the troll empire. Its mentioned that purple trolls follow the jugallo culture, which is to say, they are ALL clowns.

And it was a easy fight. Is there any injuries in ICP and Dave? (besides the blood in the ICP severed head)Jpae20 (talk) 19:43, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Well, whether or not it truly only applies to Gamzee, that section quotes the comic verbatim for the first sentence. So it's kind of moot to question the article's phrasing on this particular matter. Also, fwiw, I did make the section heading link to Gamzee specifically, since you're right that he's the only actually demonstrated example.

All that said, I think you may be missing the actual point of that section being on the article, which is about 10% "might actually be relevant, knowing Hussie" and 90% "because I think it's funny for it to be there, and this wiki runs on being serious most of the time but funny on occasion" :P -- Sorceror Nobody, 22:45, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, but i think it's better mention that Gamzee is the only one that demonstrate that, just to people don't get confused : p Jpae20 (talk) 23:17, November 28, 2014 (UTC)

Organization

I'm not sure that meenah's bomb revival info really belongs in the main section, though mentioning the time delay possibly should (john and jake took forever to revive). Also, it may seem obvious to the enlightened, but maybe put info about succumbing to injuries counting as heroic even if the death did not actually occur during the heroic part? Revitalysis 01:31, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

How does it not belong? As for the injuries part, though, yeah, we could say "the death doesn't have to be immediate to count as heroic, the player just has to succumb to fatal injuries incurred during a heroic action", except worded better. Aepokk ∀ulpex 03:09, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

The reason that I moved Meenah's bomb to the main text is that it isn't related to judgment, just to god tier revival in general. So it didn't belong in the judgment section. As for the delayed death thing, we could certainly try to expand on that a little bit -- Sorceror Nobody, 14:52, November 29, 2014 (UTC)

unjudged, or unknown judgement

meenah and the other gt alpha trolls however many there were had unjudged deaths, so there is some precedence for deaths to be unjudged... we didn't see Johns judgement from the timeline of Jades narrative, which would mean either it wasn't judged (because of some kind of loophole that denizens may exploit) or it was judged and we didn't get to see the judgement, in either case I think that death should be meantioned somewhere on the article. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 21:43, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah... I mean I think all deaths do happen to be judged, y'know? We just don't see all the judgements. Not sure what to say for the Alpha trolls... probably neutral, and to be revived? Because the judgement is usually immediate, there's just a delay in revival. As for John... we didn't see it, no, but Jade speculates it was probably Heroic. Somehow. I'm not sure. Aepokk ∀ulpex 22:44, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

you could be right about that, in which case each of those deaths would be considered an unknown judgement since we didn't see it, however we don't know if that is the case... in any case I'm not so sure about Jades speculation either, I'm think that something about the circumstances prevented revival, since it was the result of The Choice. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 23:15, November 30, 2014 (UTC)