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BlackholeWI

Content Moderator Discussions Moderator

(Adding a placeholder here because the red link bothers me. :P)  BlackholeWI (talk) 00:01, December 8, 2017 (UTC)

Homestuck link progressEdit

So I was just browsing through Lil Halbot's edits and I found at least two pages that Halbot has been through twice:

Also I did a check and the number of mainspace pages with Homestuck links is about 519 and it looks like they've reach 1191 edits (though it tends to edit a page twice when doing a run through).

So at this point should we assume most of the links have been updated? - The Light6 (talk) 00:54, April 6, 2018 (UTC)

It should have done a passthrough of all pages once at this point. The exceptions are pages which I turned it on during testing, which either weren't listed on the blacklist and were gone through twice, or which were on the blacklist despite not being fully updated and so haven't been touched. By and large though most things should be updated. If you find any specific individual pages that have been missed let me know and I can turn the bot on them manually. BlackholeWI (talk) 01:21, April 6, 2018 (UTC)
Although actually having said that I don't trust it to not have skipped a few more pages accidentally as well, so keep an eye out and let me know if you want any converted. BlackholeWI (talk) 01:27, April 6, 2018 (UTC)
List of Flash pages looks like it needs doing, you might need to revert Manfredatee‎'s edits there first.
Music Albums is sort of half-done, if the bot was ran through that it should be simple enough to manually edit it and fix it afterwards.
-The Light6 (talk) 01:28, April 6, 2018 (UTC)

Alternian numeralsEdit

While proper Elder Scrolls Daedric doesn't have numerals (at least to my knowledge), the modified Troll Daedric does have at least one appearance of numerals, though it looks like the Alternia Alphabet page is lacking any acknowledgement of their existence. But they appear on Aradia's ouija modusHS and like the New Alternian, they are modified versions of the standard western arabic numerals. - The Light6 (talk) 06:58, April 21, 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know! I didn't realize. Page has now been updated, interesting stuff. BlackholeWI (talk) 05:44, April 23, 2018 (UTC)

File namespaceEdit

Hey, you're in charge of Lil Halbot, right? So, back before the whole website shift-a-roo, I did try and source a bunch of files. Is there any chance you can try and do a quick scan of the file namespace for outdated links? (As long as the bot flag actually works and I don't get spammed with 500 emails again and then avoid the wiki for two months, terrified of my inbox) YlimegirlHero of Hope – 05:50, June 28, 2018 (UTC)

I can give it a go, will take a look later. BlackholeWI (talk) 12:37, June 28, 2018 (UTC)
Okay, it should be pointing at the file namespace now. Giving it a testrun. BlackholeWI (talk) 19:12, June 28, 2018 (UTC)

Halbot back at it again Edit

Halbot seems to have missed some [[:Category:Acts|the Problem Sleuth volume pages]] in regard to renumbering. The Problem Sleuth volume pages actually need some help; they're mostly formatted using the MSPA template rather than the PS template. Any chance your bot could see the majority of the blank links (i.e. {{MSPA|4|1105}}) and reformat it to proper Problem Sleuth links (i.e. {{PS|787|}}, and also just take care of the regular ol' links on that page. It would be much appreciated! YlimegirlHero of Hope – 01:39, July 6, 2018 (UTC)

Can do both of those things, in fact I'm pretty sure I already put an MSPA|4 to PS replacement in the current version, so it'll be all good. I'll have to point it at the pages tomorrow, though, it's pretty late now. BlackholeWI (talk) 01:54, July 6, 2018 (UTC)
A bunch of the Homestuck act pages seem to have unupdated links as well. Just letting ya know. YlimegirlHero of Hope – 06:42, July 6, 2018 (UTC)

Um... Pardon me, but would you please add the ingame portraits of Remele Namaaq and Konyyl Okimaw from Hiveswap Friendsim please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by FreeWillyNilly (talkcontribs)

Hey! I realised that Daraya and Nikhee's pages are missing their Bad ending visuals and it won't let me upload the visuals I have... Could I give the visuals for you to upload? or... Requinade (talk) 12:59, December 8, 2018 (UTC)

EpiloguesEdit

Wait, din't want to contribute further to the discussion but even I am getting mixed messages, I thought the consensus was to keep she/her pronouns but nobody would spend time to enforce it save for these obsessive editors and now you say the majority wanted the opposite. The idea of no neutral pronouns was to clarify the epilogues are not a fully-canon(?) hook to Homestuck, which is why they/them was only in the post-canon section back then blablablah. I'm also confused what will happen once roxy/cal get their "Aditional Media" subpages. Mamaopapaya (talk) 21:43, September 23, 2019 (UTC)

I think there's an argument to be made either way once the new sections are added, but at the very least I think gender neutral pronouns make sense as a stopgap. I think it's important to stress that using they/them pronouns are not specifically a statement of gender, but are in fact truly neutral pronouns that are inclusive of Roxy's identity across Homestuck, and both the Meat and Candy routes. I might use they/them when I don't specifically know somebody's pronouns, and I feel the same sort of ambiguity applies here!
As far as I'm aware, there was never any agreement to use she/her pronouns originally; what people are quoting was general advice to not add "epilogue content" to the page while the integration was discussed; that discussion is now largely over, and we're preparing to add all sorts of epilogue content, so in my opinion that advice is moot.
In terms of the actual discussion at the time, the majority of responses appeared to support a pronoun change, although there was no official vote. Let me quickly tally the responses from the two relevant discussions.
Support for pronoun change IIIIIIIIII
Opposition to pronoun change IIIIIIIII
That's sort of rough. I tried to go by user but I may have miscounted a coupleways in either direction. I also included my own vote in there, for support. Either way, there's no clear opinion for or against. However, in my book, that's reason enough to go with they/them until there's a proper consensus, because, unlike a lot of the page editors seem to think, they/them is a neutral framing, and possibly a good way of acknowledging the plurality regardless.
I personally feel like the pronouns should be kept neutral throughout even once the new sections are added; that way, the wiki content is internally consistent nomatter which way you slice it. I feel like I agree mostly with what Ylimegirl ultimately suggested (which also I feel has the added weight of being one of the closest things we have to wiki staff/moderator opinion), which was "treat both as canon and use gender-neutral pronouns throughout the pages". I'm not sure I agree with the framing, but using gender-neutral pronouns throughout feels like a good option to me, and certainly the sensible interim move while it's difficult to get a proper discussion/consensus on all this. BlackholeWI (talk) 22:16, September 23, 2019 (UTC)
I'm adding my 2 cents (and a vote) in here instead of repeatedly getting into an edit war because I don't think this is fun for any of us. My thoughts are that since Roxy uses she/her in canon, anything related to canon should also use those pronouns. I know they are technically accurate, but they are not canon-accurate, which is what most Wikis want. It's like saying every character page should use they/them because they are technically accurate, but no one is switching all of Dave's pronouns to they/them. Keeping they/them in the Epilogue sections 100% makes sense, it's what Roxy uses/is referred to with there. I also feel this is fair since the support/oppose sides are pretty even. The Epilogues are esentially glorified fanfiction with the official author's name on it, and specifically subtitled to state that they are not canon, so I feel editing canon-based sections based on this is just inaccurate. I'm not here to get into a fight with anyone, I just want to take part in an actual discussion on this instead of us all passive-aggressively editing the thing over and over. Eithfann (talk) 23:18, September 23, 2019 (UTC)
Can we please do something about this? I've been called a transphobe and a bigot in the span of 20 minutes by the same anon because I wanted the Wiki left accurate to canon. There is nothing wrong with having she/her as canon pronouns and they/them as epilogue pronouns. I'm getting really fed up with this, especially since the poll is split so evenly. Eithfann (talk) 04:29, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
Hey sorry for interfering and all, but isn't there specifically a template on the page saying not to add any information coming from the Epilogues onto pages? Then again who knows, maybe pronouns are an exception I guess? Whatever it is I hope this edit war doesn't continue.
—[ Popuko ][  Talk | Contributions 
02:40, September 24, 2019 (UTC)


You're not interfering!! This is an open discussion place. There is, and this is why I don't understand why there's an edit war happening. I'm all fine with keeping they/them to the epilogue sections, but using them to refer to Roxy and Callie throughout the wiki in entirety including canon events where she/her are used, makes this Wiki inaccurate. Eithfann (talk) 02:51, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
You guys do know that that banner template wasn't added by site admins, right? That was put in place by editors while the previous discussion took place to stop heedless edits, and will be removed when we properly integrate the epilogue content into the relevant pages. I.e., what we are discussing doing now at Forum:New Epilogues proposals. There was never any decision on the pronoun issue; as seen above the back and forth was fairly even with a slight preference for a pronoun change, and the couple of moderators who chimed in at the time seemed to back they/them as a neutral pronoun. Eithfann, nowhere in that can anyone make an inference that we are supposed to "stick to she/her". According to who? Even if we agree that the matter is not settled, they/them pronouns are, and I will say this for the third time, non-indicative of any particular gender identity or preferred pronouns, in this instance.
This whole edit war is absurd, and I am really not sure what is compelling a small handful of people to seemingly create wiki accounts solely to repeatedly revert edits about this. I'm not going to continue to personally participate in all the back and forth while it continues like this, but could everyone involved please take a step back, read what has actually been said about this, and stop being silly with the reflexive reverts? BlackholeWI (talk) 14:42, September 24, 2019 (UTC)
For that matter, we should probably actually edit that epilogues banner before we remove it, and make it link to a page detailing potentially some sort of best practice guidelines for integrating epilogue content, such as including the additional media sections. BlackholeWI (talk) 14:48, September 24, 2019 (UTC)



I'm saying this Wiki is a resource for information and the information given is incorrect. Yes, they/them is accurate in the sense that it can be used for literally anyone. But they/them are not used in canon for Roxy or Calliope, and therefore I don't understand why they are being used in the canon sections for solely those characters. Why aren't we using them for John, Dave, Jake, Vriska etc.? Isn't it just as accurate? The Epilogues are not canon, so I don't understand why non-canon information is being mixed into canon. I'm trying to be civil about this, but whoever is on the other side of this ridiculous edit war cannot control themselves enough to not yell, swear or resort to name calling and immature "go outside, step away from the computer" comments, because there is no valid reason as to why it can't be left canon-accurate.  I am not sitting here saying "get rid of they/them pronouns altogether", I am saying keep them in the sections where they are relevant. Eithfann (talk) 20:37, September 24, 2019 (UTC)


It is my firm stance that I will staunchly defend to the death that the they/them pronouns should ONLY be used in sections of the page that exclusively refer to the meat path of the Epilogues any ever single other section should exclusively use she/her because it is the most reasonable and RESPECTFUL to the canon. And any arguments I've seen to have it be they/them are completely invalid without proper justification because they/them is canon exclusively to the first part of the meat path of the epilogues and nowhere else. In Homestuck proper SHE never had gender dysphoria or any traces of it whatsoever, therefore, any parts not referring exclusively to the meat epilogues should use She/Her, because using they/them is disrespectful to the proper canonManyfaceblake (talk) 02:51, September 29, 2019 (UTC)


Yeah I don't get why this is even an argument. They/them is not accurate to Homestuck canon Roxy, it's accurate to Epilogue Roxy ONLY and even then it's only relevant to one path! No one will respond to a valid argument as to why using she/her for canon storyline is accurate and they/them is not, they just want to whine and swear and accuse us of being transphobic to get their way. It's completely out of place to use they/them when no other character page does (save for Calliope for the same BS reasoning). If I came to the wiki without reading the Epilogues and saw they/them for Roxy or Callie I would be extremely confused. It's not canon-accurate, this is a place to come for accurate information on the series and it's not doing that. I feel like using they/them is really misleading to someone only wanting to read Homestuck itself as Roxy and Callie are consistently referred to with she/her throughout the entirety of the story. I would read this expecting a trans character, or even a hint towards Roxy/Callie being trans in actual canon and there was literally nothing to support it. Eithfann (talk) 20:26, September 30, 2019 (UTC)
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